Wind power expensive, not needed: Ontario Cabinet Minister

[Photo: MyWestNipissing]
August 20, 2019
Many people will have missed this interview with MPP Vic Fedeli, as it was published in the West Nipissing community newspaper, but the comments from Mr. Fedeli on a recent report from the Fraser Institute are definitely worth a look.
Especially this week, as the wind power industry trade association and lobbyist CanWEA is in Ottawa, trying to persuade Ontario municipalities that wind power is a cost-effective way to generate electrical power that also brings jobs and prosperity to communities.
Not so, says former finance minister and nor Minister of Economic Development, Job Creation and Trade for Ontario. Wind and solar are among the most expensive ways to generate electricity, he told My West Nipissing News.
Wind power contracts were a waste of money because they produced power that Ontario didn’t need, and the surplus power is sold off, often at a loss, to competing jurisdictions in the U.S., Fedeli said. “We make about 30,000 megawatts of power a day but only need about 20,000,” Fedeli said. “So we end up paying the United States and Quebec every single night to take our surplus power.  And it’s billions of dollars every year that we’re paying those competitors of ours.”
Referring to a recent Auditor General’s report, Fedeli says the AG identified that the solar and wind projects of the previous government resulted in “spending $37-billion in wasted money”. He added that former Premiers Dalton McGuinty and Kathleen Wynne pursued the wind and solar projects solely for ideological reasons and photo ops.
“The Auditor-General has proven it certainly wasn’t anything in terms of bringing relief for families,” Fedeli said.
The Fraser Institute report  noted that solar and wind are intended to displace emission-producing forms of power generation, but also that many provinces in Canada get much of their power from nuclear plants or hydroelectric dams, neither of which energy sources produce greenhouse gas emissions.
Fedeli said Ontario gets 60 percent of its power from nuclear and additional power from its huge hydroelectric projects like Niagara Falls.
“We have clean energy from water and nuclear,” he said.
What Mr. Fedeli didn’t mention in referring to the Auditor General reports over the last 15 years was that the former McGuinty and Wynne governments never did any kind of cost-benefit or impact analysis for their wind power program which was essentially forced industrialization for rural communities. Impacts such as environmental noise leading to health problems and property value loss were never examined. The report from the Fraser Institute alleges the wind power lobby purposely ignores the consequences of wind power development, and the operation of wind power facilities.

What's your reaction?


  • Stan Thayer
    Posted August 20, 2019 9:55 am 0Likes

    Wow , hard to believe any politician would admit to knowing all that. All very real and factual.
    Thank-you Mr. Fedeli.
    One more topic that gets purposely buried in the background and is a taboo subject is the amount of power consumed by windmills when they are not synched. Just because they are turning does not mean they are producing. The mechanisms and lights are kept operating with power from the grid supplied and paid for by the Ontario hydro ratepayers. Another hidden subsidy. When stopped the constant downward pressure causes a spot on the bushings or bearings to deform then vibration increases and leads to premature failure. Dozens of damaged wind turbines are being buried in the Wyoming backcountry in huge pits at an exorbitant land cost. No recycling possible, mostly fiberglass and polymer plastics. The same will happen somewhere in Ontario!
    If the amount consumed by any IWT is added into any of the calculations it proves that overall output will eventually go negative.
    I disagree with Mr. Fedeli on the cost-benefit statement. I propose that it was done in private and that is where the Green Energy Act got its all encompassing and overriding beginnings.
    Just another Liberal scandal, and more going up, just crazy!
    Stan the power man

  • Andre Lauzon
    Posted August 20, 2019 10:08 am 0Likes

    Right on Stan..
    I think that when the “dismantling phase” of this GEP comes about it will be a bonanza for lawyers. Nobody will want to pay for it.

  • Sommer
    Posted August 21, 2019 5:20 pm 0Likes

    Yes, thank you Minister Fedeli, for finally making this belated cost /benefit analysis!
    Now, who will pay for the harm that these turbines have caused to the residents who did not consent to being harmed by audible noise, by low frequency noise modulations and by infrasound radiation? According to Dr. Mariana Alves-Pereira, who is coming to the University of Waterloo in September, the harm from LFN and infrasound is both cumulative and irreversible.
    These turbines need to be turned off now.
    Who, within this Conservative government, will take this next step and cancel the subsidies and force the wind companies to turn the turbines off?
    Who will compensate the rural residents whose lives have been seriously impacted. And yes, Andre, who will pay to to dismantle these turbines?

  • Sommer
    Posted August 22, 2019 12:12 pm 0Likes

    “What Mr. Fedeli didn’t mention in referring to the Auditor General reports over the last 15 years was that the former McGuinty and Wynne governments never did any kind of cost-benefit or impact analysis for their wind power program which was essentially forced industrialization for rural communities. Impacts such as environmental noise leading to health problems and property value loss were never examined.”
    The legacy of the Liberal government, under McGuinty and Wynne, was seriously damaged by the large scale wind incursion on rural communities. Will this Conservative government do the right thing and cut the subsidies?
    Turbines in rural neighbourhoods, where people are being harmed, must be turned off. Most people aren’t able to endure the utterly frustrating process of reporting the harm and are now ‘suffering in silence’. Audible non-compliant noise is still occurring and harm from LFN modulations and infrasound radiation is as well.
    We already know that more than half of the turbines in the largest project in Ontario were finally deemed non compliant for tonal noise. It took four years of reporting harm for the MOE to respond. More than half of the turbines(89) have been permanently derated, but still produce the swooshing and whomping noise. And these derated turbines will be even less efficient.

    • Wind Concerns Ontario
      Posted August 22, 2019 4:35 pm 0Likes

      Not sure what you mean by “cut the subsidies”; the Ontario government entered into contracts with wind power developers to supply power for 20 years. While we agree with the many authorities (e.g., acoustician Robert Rand to name one) that the only mitigation for the problems with wind turbine noise emissions (and to a degree, perhaps, water well disturbance) is to turn the turbines OFF, it is not so easy for the government to extract itself from these contracts. The cost would be substantial. Several Ministers have told us personally that it is the government’s goal to address problems using current regulations so it is important to continue to file complaints about ANY adverse effects from wind turbines to the Ministry of Environment, Conservation and Parks. Call the “Spills Line” outside of business hours at 1-866-MOE-TIPS and be sure to get an Incident Report number, and keep a record of your call(s).

      • Richard Mann
        Posted August 24, 2019 2:07 am 0Likes

        Current regulations (A-weighted sound level) do not capture low frequency sound and infra sound. In fact, infra sound is not even being measured.

      • Sommer
        Posted August 26, 2019 1:15 pm 0Likes

        Listening to the raw truth from people reporting harm from turbines, that are sited too close to their homes, and watching the deterioration of health has been a devastating experience. These people chose to live in the quiet countryside in ‘deep silence’ in order to optimize their mental and physical health. They chose to be close to nature for their well being. They did not consent to being harmed!
        Cardiovascular related episodes, caused by surrounding turbines, when barometric pressure fluctuations and certain wind speeds occur, are downright traumatizing.
        Anecdotal reports ought to be more than enough to cause ethical people to demand that these turbines be turned off.
        And forced relocation is absolutely unacceptable. Anyone suggesting that people leave their homes is complicit in this crime.
        Many medical people have not made the connections between people reporting well known psychological and physical symptoms of harm and the turbines in their communities. Instead these doctors are prescribing drugs to mask the symptoms. These drugs can have serious side effects and lead to iatrogenic disease.
        This is a human rights violation and those who are being harmed should not have to endure further harm and stress trying to satisfy legal or scientific requirements to validate their harm. This is also a violation of the Nuremberg Code. Kurt Devlin was right about this!
        The harm from LFN and infrasound, according to expert, Dr. Mariana Alves-Pereira, is both cumulative and irreversible. She has publicly declared that knowing what she knows about the harm, she would not live within 20 km from wind turbines!
        Only those who have genocidal ideology toward rural residents, who are forced to live with these turbines, would insist on having people who are honestly reporting harm, waste vital time and energy proving it somehow.
        Both the legal and scientific process to prove harm is within a ‘rigged box’ designed to delay… delay… delay. These delays have serious consequences.
        The liability for those who are responsible for this harm, at a moral level, must be/will be fully realized.
        People who acknowledge their birth right to act out of free will and follow their conscience understand this clearly.
        True advocates for people being harmed act out of courage and a sense of urgency.

    • Barbara
      Posted August 26, 2019 10:18 pm 0Likes

      Long term contracts can help to de-risk investing in IWTs and can help make IWT projects more saleable.
      In addition, subsidies can also help to de-risk IWT investing.

  • Sommer
    Posted August 28, 2019 1:03 pm 0Likes

    Who signed those long term contracts without having done a proper cost/ benefit analysis? Who signed these long term contracts without having done scientific studies on noise and LFN and infrasound emissions?
    Who granted patents for these turbines?
    Canada has Federal Statutes to protect Canadians from harmful products.

    • Barbara
      Posted August 28, 2019 4:25 pm 0Likes

      Were patents granted for the various parts of IWTs and not whole turbines themselves?
      What a sorry state of affairs?

    • Barbara
      Posted August 30, 2019 11:56 am 0Likes

      UN Library
      Scroll down to: “WIPO” and click on.
      Mentions patent information.

  • Sommer
    Posted August 30, 2019 1:50 pm 0Likes

    Barbara, we seriously need help to find out who granted the patents?
    Who were the engineers in Ontario who allowed these turbines to be approved?
    They are emitting audible noise within the non-compliant range. Over half of the turbines in the largest project in Ontario have recently been derated because the MOE, after four years, finally forced this to happen. The audible noise issue is still obviously not under control even with the derating.
    LFN and infrasound have never been measured by any agents of this government! The harm from LFN and infrasound, according to expert, Dr. Mariana Alves-Pereira, is both cumulative and irreversible and yet we have innocent men, women and children, being exposed to this harm in their homes and in their beds.
    At least four people have had extensive medical testing, because of traumatic cardiac instability episodes that has proven that they did not have typical causative factors for these cardiac episodes. No doctor has come forward to intervene on behalf of these people. Instead they’ve prescribed pharmaceuticals to try to prevent further cardiac instability episodes.
    This government has refused to meet with trusted advocates who are willing to meet face to face on behalf of these people and to look at their relevant medical records! To date, key people within this government, including Minister Christine Elliot, haven’t even responded to this request for a face to face meeting. Several people sent letters starting in October of 2018 requesting that action be taken to protect people being harmed from LFN and infrasound and no one within this government has responded to this request.
    Yes, this is indeed a ‘sorry state of affairs’. People who are not being harmed have forsaken those who are.

    • Barbara
      Posted August 30, 2019 6:32 pm 0Likes

      Have you tried the Canada Patent Office for information on the patent topic?
      The one above that I came across is an international patent information data base. And it’s a huge data base. But you could try asking for information?

    • Barbara
      Posted August 30, 2019 10:05 pm 0Likes

      Try the various links/topics? Webpage also has “Search”?

  • Sommer
    Posted August 31, 2019 4:27 pm 0Likes

    Barbara, to my knowledge, people being harmed are so consumed by their day to day reality, that the time it takes to go through any sort of convoluted process to find such information, just doesn’t exist. Also, the research process is something they’re not familiar with. Do you have any idea what the cumulative and irreversible harm from LFN and infrasound does to a person’s life?
    Would you help to do this research? You could start with the largest wind project in Ontario, K2 Wind.
    Who granted the patents for the turbines and who were the engineers who approved of the design of the turbines in this project. More than half of the turbines have been deemed non- compliant for audible noise and have been permanently derated to reduce tonal noise. This fact is in the public domain.
    Tonal noise as well as the swooshing and whomping noise still continues despite the derating. These turbines have never been tested for LFN and infrasound radiation even though residents begged for the enforcement of the Radiation Emitting Devices Act. Some residents are experiencing traumatic cardiac instability and have medical evidence proving that they did not have typical causative factors. This situation is egregious.There is serious neglect of duty to protect.

  • Barbara
    Posted September 1, 2019 6:30 pm 0Likes

    True, people just don’t have the time do much searching. And I’m well aware of the present “noise” situation.
    Try using different keywords search? Appears there is information?

  • Barbara
    Posted September 1, 2019 9:16 pm 0Likes

    Came across this recently.
    World Energy Council
    “Renewable Energy Projects Handbook”, April 2004, ~ 108 pages.
    P. 44, Mentions wind turbine “noise”.
    Hope this pdf is still available?

  • Barbara
    Posted September 5, 2019 2:55 pm 0Likes
  • Stan Thayer
    Posted September 5, 2019 7:08 pm 0Likes

    So I get to say, (I told you so), again.
    The German government has pulled subsidies and proposed permits from the now famous company that projected, 20 by 20. 20% renewables by 2020. Now with a decade of data they won’t make 20 by 20 or 20 by 30. The units need rebuilds and the lobbyists need a slap on their computers that predicted the overblown ridiculous numbers that everyone believed simply because they wanted it to be true.
    Reality bites!
    Same predictions and same machines installed acrosd Ontario, just under 3000 units.
    So far today, September 5th 2019, up to the 18th hour, the average input from all units to the Ontario electrical grid was 87MW with a grid demand bouncing around 17,000MW. 87MW wouldn’t power the streetlights.
    The Renewable Energy portfolios were implimented with the objective of profit not energy.
    It could have been done so much better!
    Profit putting them up and profit taking them down.
    Everyone gets leftovers!
    Stan the power man

  • Barbara
    Posted September 7, 2019 10:09 pm 0Likes
  • Tracy
    Posted September 9, 2019 11:06 am 0Likes

    Mr. Fidelli’s focus is on the cost/benefit anaysis. I spoke with him in North Bay a few years ago regarding negative health impact from exposure to low frequencies. He had no interest whatsoever in health issues. The subject is taboo. Fidelli would like to sweep the dirt under the rug. Show me some ethics Fidelli. I have little respect for the man. His focus is on money and North Bay.
    WCO, you mention it would be too costly for the government to shut down the turbines. The lawsuits from keeping the turbines running and harming people, will far exceed the cost to keep them going. The government and wind company will continue to drag their heels, and filling their pockets, hoping that people like me die before the cases come to fruition. Perhaps Fidelli should do a cost anaysis regarding the harm experienced by the people of Ontario, and the compensation they will be paid. Yes Sommer, the effects are cumulative and irreversible. More and more people are becoming sick. Thank you Sommer for your enduring support.

  • Sommer
    Posted September 9, 2019 3:11 pm 0Likes

    Seminar: Infrasound and Low Frequency Noise: Physics, Cells, Health and History
    Thursday, September 12, 2019 — 1:00 PM EDT
    Mariana Alves-Pereira
    DC – William G. Davis Computer Research Centre 1302
    200 University Avenue West
    Waterloo, ON N2L 3G1

    • Stan Thayer
      Posted September 26, 2019 6:39 am 0Likes

      Hey Mr. Fedeli, mark this on your calendar.
      I predict grid disruption in the North Bay area or the York region by the end of 2022.
      Surges, regulation problems, overvoltage, input overloads, all hitting an antiquated grid system not designed for this is going to cause appliance failures, equipment failures, grid reduction brownouts and perhaps even grid reduction to zero blackouts in one of the two sections I mentioned.
      No Tornados required, just wind turbines!
      Stan the power man

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